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Post by calciterimed on Jan 23, 2023 3:04:29 GMT
So a topic I've been wondering about a bit is what methods systems use to ensure the front stays with a headmate instead of the previous fronter. I'm not so much talking about switching in or cofronting, as I've seen that a fair bit and it looks like it is based on how interested that headmate is on the task/topic at hand.
Most of what I've seen of this has been either to let another headmate deal with a task that may traumatise another, like medical work, but also I've seen a lot of cases where it was done through violent means in-headspace. That ended up producing fairly long fronting periods (around a week or so), but it seems to work by distressing the previous fronter to the point they can't actively do things on their own accord though.
Does anyone have experiences doing this? I'ld like to help any friends that have to deal with this, as I feel like there are gentler ways to get someone to be switched out than imagined decapitation or beatdowns. |
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Efflorescence
Member
Posts: 12
Pronouns: they/them, ve/ver
System Name: Efflorescence(Lore)
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Post by Efflorescence on Jan 23, 2023 4:36:15 GMT
I'm honestly rather horrified by your descriptions of inducing switching here? that seems very unusual for systems, and abusive. system members can unfortunately be abusive to eachother, i would try to let a friend know they're safe with you if a member of their system is doing that to them. I might also try to get them to see a therapist or someone else who can help them move away from such selves-harmful actions.
Switching and fronting is not always a thing that can be controlled. it is healthier for a system to figure out what makes them front, and let themselves just BE for a bit. Forcing ones way to the front via violence is unsustainable. besides that, whoever is trying to hold the front for that long probably should let go of the idea they're the only one living their life. they don't get to be in complete control.
for us, we work collectively, and wish to help eachother, so if one of us is better with say, a doctor's appointment, that person would try to switch out simply because we care about eachother. this is something built off kindness though, and it might take a long time for a system to be able to get there if they're starting from the opposite end. Other ways might be encouragement rather than punishment. Say the member they're trying to switch with likes sweets; headmate a could make a deal that if headmate b lets them front, then they'll buy headmate b some extra sweets. we also try to make sure everyone has something they like in the external world; it is far easier for us to hold front for longer if we are able to focus on or think about something we enjoy. that of course would also need to have that member accept they are not the only one who deserves to front, and if someone else wants to front for a week because they enjoy it they have to let them.
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skinstealer
Member
Posts: 14
Pronouns: plural they/them
System Name: Skinstealer System/Mortis Velasquez
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Post by skinstealer on Jan 23, 2023 6:36:36 GMT
stepping in to offer some clarity- our system is one of the ones rime's mentioned here, and they wanted to start this conversation on our behalf, mainly to go "hey, my friend needs some better coping skills because this is kind of maladaptive"- there's a lot more to it but it'd be a lot of exposition on something i was planning to come into this thread with regardless. i can try to clear up some stuff but like
the main problem is that i (rin) am front stuck a lot of the time, primarily against my will. i personally don't fault any system members that end up sort-of-KO'ing me out of the front because a lot of the time it is actually pretty necessary for our overall safety/sanity- it's kind of a complicated situation.
our system is made up of cartoons with a horror background, some of that comes out through that kind of lens, and i don't think it should be inherently labelled as abusive just because it is a different filter than what's probably more common. sometimes we end up fighting, whether it's a spar or something more charged, but we do our best to navigate things afterward and do care/discussion where necessary. cartoon violence may be unpleasant and yeah, in these cases it does cause distress, but it's something we're working on and that's kind of the point of the post. our system Does have a lot of love and kindness going on, we've been working together for 10 years at this point, but we just want to figure out ways to better do this that don't involve collateral damage.
re: violence in our system- we have very...i guess unique relationships to our headspace, which is part of why we wanted to join this forum and have some good talks on it. headspace for us is both a visualization technique and a way to "access" what we consider our true forms- but for us, it isn't 1:1 with reality in our eyes, and actions taken there are often more of an emotional expression of both conscious and subconscious desires than to be taken literally.
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Efflorescence
Member
Posts: 12
Pronouns: they/them, ve/ver
System Name: Efflorescence(Lore)
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Post by Efflorescence on Jan 23, 2023 6:54:48 GMT
I wondered if there might be some context missing from the post that would've better clarified. There are systems that form from abuse and then recreate that within their headspace, or ones whose hosts struggle to let go, so i worked off that assumption; my apologies.
In terms of getting un-frontstuck, we have this weird visualization technique where one headmate kind of gives us a brain massage, as if we are literally stuck to the sides of our skull like slime, and they just gently remove us from it and then we are free to switch out. This is what we did when we first realized we were plural and our frontstuck member was finding it difficult to let go, and it's managed to work both times someone has gotten frontstuck since. I hope this can be a bit more helpful ^^
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skinstealer
Member
Posts: 14
Pronouns: plural they/them
System Name: Skinstealer System/Mortis Velasquez
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Post by skinstealer on Jan 23, 2023 7:01:02 GMT
oh huh re: brain massage, that sounds really interesting- we're interested in trying all kinds of weird visualization stuff bc even if it's not 1:1 with Reality(tm) for us, it can still be immensely helpful and reassuring. we'll look into trying something like that!
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Post by calciterimed on Jan 23, 2023 8:43:42 GMT
I was put off a bit by the initial reply, as the methods talked about, while safe and proven, are more focused on bringing headmates into cofronting than actually allowing a fronter to switch out. As Skinstealer mentions, I made this to see if anyone had ideas that could help with finding ways to switch out without having to beat down the current fronter.
This brain massage method is definitely what I want to see, it also could work well with personal motifs a bit here. It kind of feels like it's centering the fronter by symbolically removing them from outside matters.
With the switching issues it's definitely more maladaptive than abusive - the violence usually happens either spontaneously when alone or from doing something that insults another system member, it was an observation that it seems to allow headmates to front for a longer time than usual.
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DHC-Fawn
Member
Posts: 18
Pronouns: Fae/She/They
System Name: The Dragonheart Collective
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Post by DHC-Fawn on Jan 23, 2023 23:27:51 GMT
Here are two switching guides that may help: Feather's Guide To Fronting and Switching - The best one for the kind of switching it is tbh, and about how we do it if we consciously want to switch Malfael's Switching Guide - Tulpa guide that assumes its way/reasoning is the only one but very all purpose. Its a bit technical though. Also a 'becoming'/'passing the I' type switch. In our own personal experience for how we switch, we intentionally 'give the I' to the person who wants to switch in. This is something that was hard to learn to do on purpose at first because its a really intense version of giving up control. the 'I' is the primary control of the internal narrative and the ability to think and record memories from your perspective for us. We give the I AND control of the body, and then they take it. We have yet to be able to separate the control of the body from the internal narrative for more than a few seconds, but some systems can for long periods of time(this is switching in the sort of third person 'making memories while not at front watching the body as the other fronts' sort of switch most people think of when they hear switching). When we give up the I it might feel like 'allowing yourself to become x', but you still exist, you are just not using the primary memory writing of the body anymore. If we feel a bit sticky, first we remember the body is the vessel and not us, then the fronter perceives the inner world and ourself. We get the volunteer to take front up close thinking their thinky thoughts- then the current fronter visualizes stepping back into the inner world 'out of the body' and lets go of the internal narrative. The next fronter then takes the narrative like they would for normal talking and visualizes stepping 'into the body' from the inner world. They then think from the perspective of I with the internal narrative they are still holding and have switched in. To resist a switch back/stay in front. The fronter needs to ground in the 'I', in that they think 'this is my body', they consciously feel their identity and assert it. Repeating internally things that know about themselves. We experience different phantom limbs each, so we consciously feel those limbs and will them to move around. We perceive and ground in our surroundings by listening to music we like, or looking at things and really registering them in our minds, or moving around. Yknow, depersonalization grounding exercises. They need to firmly think with the perspective of I. The person drifting back to front needs to will themselves to Not Do That in return (with or without the help of others in the headspace). If that fronter hasnt really fronted for long before, they may not have stamina, so practicing can really help. In general, practice is what allows this to really work. We went from very little control over switching to something like 60% of our switching being fully on purpose on at least one of our behalfs. From someone who wasnt the host switching in and out maybe once or twice a month for a couple hours to every day having more than one person using the front through practice. This change took about ~1.5/2 years or so of dedicated work though. Our host also needs to be kicked out of front every now and then for its wellbeing, but its less now that its gotten used to switching more.
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